Integrated Transport Strategy for Castlemaine and Goldfields Shires

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 28 Aug 2020 12:48
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This study do we know if it includes a rail service between Maryborough and Castlemaine?

The councils own document shows 4-5 bus trips per day between the two cities.



Integrated Transport Strategy for Castlemaine and Goldfields Shires

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Clearly no railway stations planned for Carisbrook, Newstead, Guildford or Campbells Creek. So you answer would be a definite... No Exclamation

Mike.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I hope there could be improved bus access to the Maldon railway station.  Currently the bus (route 4 I think) only drops by it one way on Saturdays only.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Clearly no railway stations planned for Carisbrook, Newstead, Guildford or Campbells Creek. So you answer would be a definite... No Exclamation

Mike.
The Vinelander

V/Line and the Government really do have a bee in their bonnett over this line having been called out by independent engineers on the true cost of providing trains.  I really dislike corrupted behaviour.
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

No mention of trains , track or anything rail in the article but it’s in a train/rail thread !

Refer your alleged corrupt dishonest behaviour to IBAC and see how far it goes
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
No mention of trains , track or anything rail in the article but it’s in a train/rail thread !

Refer your alleged corrupt dishonest behaviour to IBAC and see how far it goes
Richard stroker

There is plenty in front of iBac concerning rail already.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Id be interested to see what the patronage of the 4-5 services is when they start.  If strong, and peaky, then perhaps it would make sense.

Though the best data to have would be car data between the two cities (and also beyond to Ballarat etc).
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Clearly no railway stations planned for Carisbrook, Newstead, Guildford or Campbells Creek. So you answer would be a definite... No Exclamation

Mike.

V/Line and the Government really do have a bee in their bonnett over this line having been called out by independent engineers on the true cost of providing trains.  I really dislike corrupted behaviour.
bevans
The Department of Transport has clearly pointed out they have NO Intentions of restoring this former rail link (that's why they are progressively removing It) you can put as much spin on that they're wrong as you like, but It won't change anything.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Clearly no railway stations planned for Carisbrook, Newstead, Guildford or Campbells Creek. So you answer would be a definite... No Exclamation

Mike.

V/Line and the Government really do have a bee in their bonnett over this line having been called out by independent engineers on the true cost of providing trains.  I really dislike corrupted behaviour.
The Department of Transport has clearly pointed out they have NO Intentions of restoring this former rail link (that's why they are progressively removing It) you can put as much spin on that their wrong as you like, but It won't change anything.
Nightfire

The position on the Castlemaine-Marybough rail line and DoT's opinions of it are only a minister with the balls to stand up to the department away from being resolved. Unfortunately the current lot, as well as the presumptive alternative probably are not that.

Perish the department heads where a railfan or someone that has the nous to do what needs to be done where to ever to get into a position to do something about it.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The Department of Transport has clearly pointed out they have NO Intentions of restoring this former rail link (that's why they are progressively removing It) you can put as much spin on that they're wrong as you like, but It won't change anything.
Nightfire

The minister needs more balls.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The Department of Transport has clearly pointed out they have NO Intentions of restoring this former rail link (that's why they are progressively removing It) you can put as much spin on that they're wrong as you like, but It won't change anything.

The minister needs more balls.
bevans

Tennis, golf, cricket or footballs Question
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
The words “integrated transport strategy” translated immediately in my mind to “buses”. It’s public service language.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
The Department of Transport has clearly pointed out they have NO Intentions of restoring this former rail link (that's why they are progressively removing It) you can put as much spin on that they're wrong as you like, but It won't change anything.

The minister needs more balls.

Tennis, golf, cricket or footballs Question
The Vinelander
Cojones.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What I have come to realise is the lack of vision in the state of Victoria.  Where is the vision?

Plans are put together which are never delivered.  Anything that is delivered is well overdue and over budget.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The minister needs more balls.

Tennis, golf, cricket or footballs Question
The Vinelander
Around here the votes are in footballs (the Sherrin variety not the round ones) so I'd go with that if I were minister... or Netballs if I were courting the female vote Smile
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The words “integrated transport strategy” translated immediately in my mind to “buses”. It’s public service language.
"SinickleBird"
Thanks. I was wondering how best to describe the terminology, but you've done it well.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Around here the votes are in footballs (the Sherrin variety not the round ones) so I'd go with that if I were minister... or Netballs if I were courting the female vote
BrentonGolding"
Or voting for a female netball court I presume.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Id be interested to see what the patronage of the 4-5 services is when they start.  If strong, and peaky, then perhaps it would make sense.

Though the best data to have would be car data between the two cities (and also beyond to Ballarat etc).
james.au
The answer to the first part as has been pointed out to Bevans on many occasions is bugger all. I quite often find myself at Castlemaine station for the departure of the 17.00 Maryborough Road Coach and even pre covid there would be lucky to be 5 passengers on it. Same goes for arrivals, when I am arriving on a train or volunteering at the VGR I sometimes pop over for a look. Granted some may get on and off along the way but it wouldn't be more than a handful, most of the towns serviced are tiny and there is also a community bus service that links many of them and brings people into The Maine for shopping etc.

Another point, the busses serve many small hamlets which would not be rail served so you would still need feeder busses to ferry the handful of pax from their home town to the nearest station (anyone around here who can drive does I can assure you, the local roads are busy with people commuting to/from work, shopping etc)

I also use the Route 4 and Route 1 services on occasion to get into town or to Maldon / Campbell's Creek and they are VERY poorly patronised, the "flagship" morning service from Maldon to CME to meet the 09.08 Up train is run by a minibus off one of the School runs.

Interestingly the bus stop at Winters Flat was recently upgraded with concrete boarding pads and V/Line signage and there appears to be more V/Line coach services running but I can't make hide nor hair of the complex timetables to work out if that is actually the case.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
There is no justification in rebuilding the Maryborough - Castlemaine railway. None.

First of all, lets compare it with another line that recently was rebuilt, the Maryborough - Ararat railway. For a start the line to Ararat was in much better condition than the line to Castlemaine. The line to Castlemaine has had bits washed away, there are long sections of it that have since had the rail itself removed for use by the VGR and most if not all of the level crossings have been paved over and have seen the crossing equipment dismantled and removed. I believe the Maryborough - Ararat line cost somewhere in the realm of $750,000 per km to rebuild, so you can bet the Maryborough - Castlemaine line would cost more than that. Then you have to build new stations at towns like Carisbrook and Newstead. You can add another $5,000,000 for the most basic of station at each of those. And lets not waste time trying to solve the complex problem that is revenue PTV trains mixing use of track with the VGR at Castlemaine, that is a headache we don't need to get into here.

Secondly, Freight. The line through Avoca was a simple decision to make, it was going to carry plenty of freight, and freight pays its way a lot more then passenger do, so it was a no brainer. Where is the freight for the line via Newstead coming from? There isn't any. It all either goes through Maryborough already or runs down the mainline from Bendigo. Yes, it may come in handy a few times a year when there is a disruption, but that isn't enough to justify the costs we are looking at here. If you want a secondary route, better to look towards Inglewood.

Next up is Passengers themselves. Maryborough gets 2 trains per day to and from Ballarat, and from what I hear, those passenger numbers don't make for good reading. Sure, if it was upped to 3 or 4 trains per day, that may improve the figures, but not enough to help justify the cost. If you were to add in another 3 trains per day between Maryborough and Castlemaine and even on to Bendigo, what guarantee is there that there would even be passengers that want to use those trains? Would you just take more passengers off the existing service making that less likely to survive?

So what is the result? You have spent upwards of $100,000,000 on providing this service before your first revenue train has run, and then when they do, how many people are actually going to want to use it on a regular basis? 10 - 15 per train per day?

That is just not a good use of tax payer money, I don't care how much you like trains. Put a lot less money into coach and bus services, and improve the quality of our country roads. At least there is some value for money in that.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Around here the votes are in footballs (the Sherrin variety not the round ones) so I'd go with that if I were minister... or Netballs if I were courting the female vote
Or voting for a female netball court I presume.
Valvegear
Of courts!
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I hope there could be improved bus access to the Maldon railway station.  Currently the bus (route 4 I think) only drops by it one way on Saturdays only.
route14
For what purpose may I ask? Aside from providing for pax who want to go one way on the VGR (which the VGR would not encourage, they would much prefer return patronage) a bus to the station serves very little purpose as no commuter services run from there.

The route 4 bus runs only to the town centre (Fountain St just up from the Kangaroo Hotel which is handy) M>F but on both Saturday and Sunday the service is extended out to Tarrengower prison via one of those classic trying to serve everyone but helping no one routes all around Maldon Town.

IIRC these services (3 per day each way) are supposed to run via the station although in truth not all do but they do run down Reef St right past the Loco shed and Eric or one of the other very helpful drivers is always happy to drop you off there if you wish.

The TT is not really that helpful in linking up with VGR services ATM which is mainly due to the fact that the same bus runs many services in and around Castlemaine during each day - Campbell's Creek, Harcourt, Taradale, Castlemaine Loop, the same bus and driver run all on any given day with a changeover for lunch on weekdays. The bus is running pretty much none stop from 9ish through till after 6 on weekdays,  shorter on weekends as I believe only 1 driver shift is rostered.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

So it's sort of flexible route like the one in Paynesville?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
So it's sort of flexible route like the one in Paynesville?
route14
https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/10924/castlemaine-maldon/

Timetabled to run to the station on Sat and Sunday.

Servicing the station requires a sharp left turn from Reef St into Hornsby, travelling just a few hundred metres to the station, doing a U turn in the full length bus on a narrow and busy country road and then driving back the way you came down the hill into Maldon township. I have heard it said that not all services do the little U turn detour via the station with some drivers "forgetting" and just turning right out of Reef St and heading to town.

There is normally no one on the bus by this stage of the trip unless someone is returning from a visit to the prison (normally last service of the day only due to having caught the first service out there) and I reckon you could count the number of pax boarding at the station in a year on one hand!
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Perish the department heads where a railfan or someone that has the nous to do what needs to be done where to ever to get into a position to do something about it.  
Galron
Heck no! I want to see more rail traffic as much as anyone else but there are countless posts on Railpage alone that show that railfans have NFI about funding or budgets or return on investments. They'd send the state broke in no time!
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
What I have come to realise is the lack of vision in the state of Victoria.  Where is the vision?

Plans are put together which are never delivered.  Anything that is delivered is well overdue and over budget.
bevans

As you should be able to note...this study is by the Central Goldfields Shire, perhaps with some input from Mount Alexander Shire...nothing to do with the state government at this time.

Mike.

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