Civic leaders slam fast rail for bypassing Avalon Airport, not being fast enough

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 24 Nov 2020 12:52
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Worthy of discussion raising some good points

Former Geelong mayor and Stronger Together Rail Alliance chair Bruce Harwood said while he supported the state government in moving forward on fast rail, the current proposal meant there would be “no fast rail for southwest Victoria”.

“50-55 minutes is not fast rail,” he said. “It’s maybe 10 minutes faster than what we’ve got at the moment.” Cr Harwood said he remained sceptical until he’d been presented with an independently assessed business case and solid time frame for the completion of works.
Somebody

Saving 10 minutes costing $4b+ (the + is for projects delivered in Victoria) is hardly worth the effort.  Really why can't we expect 20 minute savings for that price.

During the works a connection to Avalon Airport should be included in the design for sure.  The $4b could have $100m for the line to Avalon which if built would open up the airport more favourably to the airlines who want to use it but maybe feel it is too inaccessible.

Most airports of that distance from a major capital would have a rail link.

Civic leaders slam fast rail for bypassing Avalon Airport, not being fast enough

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Geelong should be about the last destination considered for fast rail. Fast rail should be used on longer distances where time savings are really significant; Melbourne - Albury for example.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Geelong should be about the last destination considered for fast rail. Fast rail should be used on longer distances where time savings are really significant; Melbourne - Albury for example.
Valvegear
Just get the Seymour-Melbourne section running fast enough to get about 100kph averages and that will significantly enhance the northern services.  If they did a full rationalisation along that corridor considering the BG and SG as one i bet there could be some significant savings made time wise and ongoing cost wise.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Geelong should be about the last destination considered for fast rail. Fast rail should be used on longer distances where time savings are really significant; Melbourne - Albury for example.
Valvegear
Yes. We should be aiming for 2.5 hour journeys Melbourne to Albury. Spending load of coin to Geelong for fast rail is ridiculous.


Michael
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Not so fast team Jacinta is on the case

  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Is there no end to the whingeing about Geelong rail services?
Is there no end to the money to be thrown at Geelong train services?
Rhetorical questions .......................

Geelong activists and the Victorian and Federal Governments all need to consider that there are other people and places in Victoria equally deserving of a reliable, fairly priced and reasonably comfortable rail service.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Is there no end to existing threads on this topic?
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Is there no end to the whingeing about Geelong rail services?
Is there no end to the money to be thrown at Geelong train services?
Rhetorical questions .......................

Geelong activists and the Victorian and Federal Governments all need to consider that there are other people and places in Victoria equally deserving of a reliable, fairly priced and reasonably comfortable rail service.
YM-Mundrabilla

Do you think it might be possible the plans for the Geelong line are just not favoured by the people who use the service and therefore people are speaking up?  Victoria seems to talk more about they want to do rather than do it.

God's sake who would not want to connect the airport to the rail network for people to access the airport easily and reliably?

The fact this is being discussed shows the vic government is truly challenged when it comes to planning for rail and transport something which happens freely and with far more efficacy in other states and countries.
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
“Give us high speed rail, but have a stop at Avalon Airport” - am I the only one who sees this as contradictory?

Can someone please remind me how many flights use Avalon daily? And, given the wide-ranging complaints about how inconvenient the Melbourne (Tullamarine) train service will be (see other thread), hazard a guess how many Melbourne residents will actually use a service to Avalon.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
“Give us high speed rail, but have a stop at Avalon Airport” - am I the only one who sees this as contradictory?

Can someone please remind me how many flights use Avalon daily? And, given the wide-ranging complaints about how inconvenient the Melbourne (Tullamarine) train service will be (see other thread), hazard a guess how many Melbourne residents will actually use a service to Avalon.
SinickleBird
No you are not alone.
They got their gee whizz route across the rocks away from those pesky sparks that hold them up in the Metrop but still not satisfied and now want high speed expresses but diverting from the direct route to stop at Avalon plus also wishing to return to the route via Newport from which they will, no doubt, want to remove the sparks.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Is there no end to existing threads on this topic?
kitchgp
Sadly not!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Can someone please remind me how many flights use Avalon daily? And, given the wide-ranging complaints about how inconvenient the Melbourne (Tullamarine) train service will be (see other thread), hazard a guess how many Melbourne residents will actually use a service to Avalon.
SinickleBird

Buying in now.  The airport would hope plenty and plenty do.

If you consider projects take a decade here it should be planned in and when completed global aviation will be twice what it was pre-covid.  If you ask me would I take a plane from Avalon?  Nope too hard and too expensive to get to and from that airport.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

At about a pre-COVID 14 flights a day, Skybus (Southern Cross & Werribee) will be more than adequate for a long time into the future. It's a measure of the difference between the two airports. At Avalon buses are scheduled to meet flights. At Melbourne, it's a 24-hour turn up & go operation. Avalon only needs the land reserved. One 6-car VLocity per day would carry those passengers using public transport.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
At about a pre-COVID 14 flights a day, Skybus (Southern Cross & Werribee) will be more than adequate for a long time into the future. It's a measure of the difference between the two airports. At Avalon buses are scheduled to meet flights. At Melbourne, it's a 24-hour turn up & go operation. Avalon only needs the land reserved. One 6-car VLocity per day would carry those passengers using public transport.
kitchgp

Oh dear.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Fast Rail to Avalon just doesn’t make sense until the airport becomes actually significant, just run Skybus shuttle from Lara, and/or Skybus to Geelong, and Melbourne. The government should reserve some land now though.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The thinking should be transport options and investment to build up the facility. Take Sydney second airport already a partner the plan. Melbourne should put the line in place now so it can support the expansion of the airport.
Call it good investment and planning.
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Fast Rail to Avalon just doesn’t make sense until the airport becomes actually significant, just run Skybus shuttle from Lara, and/or Skybus to Geelong, and Melbourne. The government should reserve some land now though.
Jordy33
That's been looked at but even Avalon management said there wasn't really enough potential users to justify a rail line. Apparently, at one point, they considered a people-mover of sorts to link to a, new, I think, station on the existing line.

Neil
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

That's been looked at but even Avalon management said there wasn't really enough potential users to justify a rail line. Apparently, at one point, they considered a people-mover of sorts to link to a, new, I think, station on the existing line.

Neil
ngarner
I'm sure they could get a decent deal on a used Tarago for the job.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Lara to Avalon would be best served by a shuttle. Could be light metro or the like.

Geelong Fast Rail to stop Geelong, North Geelong, Lara, (Werribee?), Footscray and Spencer St. Lara is borderline big enough to justify the stop on it's own, combined with Avalon traffic makes it more so. Can start as a shuttle bus for now until it's built.
  John E Locomotive Fireman

Lara to Avalon would be best served by a shuttle. Could be light metro or the like.

Geelong Fast Rail to stop Geelong, North Geelong, Lara, (Werribee?), Footscray and Spencer St. Lara is borderline big enough to justify the stop on it's own, combined with Avalon traffic makes it more so. Can start as a shuttle bus for now until it's built.
John.Z
The shuttle at Lara would have to be very frequent for people to want to catch it - you don't want to be waiting 20 minutes or longer for connections. Otherwise it's just easier to catch a Skybus to Werribee (or city) then the train.

In 20+ years from now when Melbourne & Geelong are much bigger, track capacity is added between Werribee and Laverton and Geelong services are quicker the following could happen:
- 5 km spur line north of Lara to Avalon Airport with a flyovers coming from Melbourne and Geelong.
- 3 Trains per hour from Melbourne via Werribee (this would be an extension of Werribee services), so no services are lost for Werribee commuters.
- If Geelong ever gets their own "Metro service" they could send 2 trains per hour to Avalon in addition to the services that go to Melbourne (approx. 6-8 peak).

There are many other questions that also need to be solved (Diesel vs Electric, Metro 2 tunnel, segregation of Altona Loop & Werribee services). In a perfect world Avalon Airport terminal would be right next to the main line but alas! There does not need to be a separate line from Geelong to Werribee!
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

Buying in now.  The airport would hope plenty and plenty do.

If you consider projects take a decade here it should be planned in and when completed global aviation will be twice what it was pre-covid.  If you ask me would I take a plane from Avalon?  Nope too hard and too expensive to get to and from that airport.
bevans
I like using Avalon. It's closer than Tulla, you can park at the door, and it's only a short walk to the gate.

Station or no station, it's still gunna' be a drive to get there.
  Maximas Locomotive Fireman

Location: Geelong
Remember when the feds 2 billion was dismissed by Andrews, Allen and co? I'm quite shocked that they have matched it after the blast they gave it when announced last year.

If the local councillors were really concerned with trying to entice people down here and get the city moving they'd be calling for more businesses to move down (such as we've had with worksafe and the NDIS recently) to actually encourage people to live and work here.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Remember when the feds 2 billion was dismissed by Andrews, Allen and co? I'm quite shocked that they have matched it after the blast they gave it when announced last year.
Maximas
Remember it well. $2B for a 32 minute trip from Geelong to SCS.

They was dreaming that could get a complete upgrade to 250kph running, sparks and new rolling stock.
All for just a measly 2 (or did they really mean 4) bill.

Now reality time. You'll get a pretty good 50min service, using much of what is already there.
Nothing fancy, just adequate and within cost reality.

cheers
John's
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Remember when the feds 2 billion was dismissed by Andrews, Allen and co? I'm quite shocked that they have matched it after the blast they gave it when announced last year.
Remember it well. $2B for a 32 minute trip from Geelong to SCS.

They was dreaming that could get a complete upgrade to 250kph running, sparks and new rolling stock.
All for just a measly 2 (or did they really mean 4) bill.

Now reality time. You'll get a pretty good 50min service, using much of what is already there.
Nothing fancy, just adequate and within cost reality.

cheers
John's
justarider
Yes totally agree. Dan Andrews was right and realistic. He knew that there was no way you could have High Speed Rail, coupled with electrification and new High Speed rolling stock for and 80 km corridor for $4 Billion. Quite simply the Feds were talking out of their collective rears.

Michael
  Maximas Locomotive Fireman

Location: Geelong
Very true, at least the feds still gave out the cash though, would be nice if they would free up some of those EW link funds for a project the state will actually take up

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