The 'renewable' energy thread -

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The Australian Financial Review (paywall) is reporting that the Telsa Big Battery is still on fire near Geelong and that fire crews have been unable to put it out nearly four days after it started. This news isn't being reported anywhere else - why?

The fire is emitting toxic smoke forcing the evacuation of nearby residents and has now consumed much of the plant. Seems to burn really well, perhaps we should be putting that stuff into coal fired power plants instead of coal.

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Australian Financial Review (paywall) is reporting that the Telsa Big Battery is still on fire near Geelong and that fire crews have been unable to put it out nearly four days after it started. This news isn't being reported anywhere else - why?

The fire is emitting toxic smoke forcing the evacuation of nearby residents and has now consumed much of the plant. Seems to burn really well, perhaps we should be putting that stuff into coal fired power plants instead of coal.
don_dunstan
More info here: https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-megapack-still-burning-no-word-if-any-delays-to-victoria-big-battery/

It's more to do with the way they burn - i.e. forever.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The Australian Financial Review (paywall) is reporting that the Telsa Big Battery is still on fire near Geelong and that fire crews have been unable to put it out nearly four days after it started. This news isn't being reported anywhere else - why?

The fire is emitting toxic smoke forcing the evacuation of nearby residents and has now consumed much of the plant. Seems to burn really well, perhaps we should be putting that stuff into coal fired power plants instead of coal.
More info here: https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-megapack-still-burning-no-word-if-any-delays-to-victoria-big-battery/

It's more to do with the way they burn - i.e. forever.
Carnot
Did they tell the local residents about that when they were seeking planning approval for it?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Australian Financial Review (paywall) is reporting that the Telsa Big Battery is still on fire near Geelong and that fire crews have been unable to put it out nearly four days after it started. This news isn't being reported anywhere else - why?

The fire is emitting toxic smoke forcing the evacuation of nearby residents and has now consumed much of the plant. Seems to burn really well, perhaps we should be putting that stuff into coal fired power plants instead of coal.
More info here: https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-megapack-still-burning-no-word-if-any-delays-to-victoria-big-battery/

It's more to do with the way they burn - i.e. forever.
Did they tell the local residents about that when they were seeking planning approval for it?
don_dunstan
It's in a logical location, next to the big Moorabool substation and several large windfarms.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
The fire is now under control, with no flame present. It is bloody obvious that the entire facility did NOT burn to the ground. Just two of the 212 modules were destroyed:

Tesla Megapack fire finally under control, no word on delays to Victoria Big Battery RenewEconomy
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The fire is now under control, with no flame present. It is bloody obvious that the entire facility did NOT burn to the ground. Just two of the 212 modules were destroyed:

Tesla Megapack fire finally under control, no word on delays to Victoria Big Battery RenewEconomy
DirtyBallast
Pretty fortunate in the end.  The containers are meant to do exactly that - contain a fire.  Although the fact that the adjacent battery caught fire should result in some re-evaluation of the spacing between them in future installations.

Anyway, opposition to the big 85m powerlines planned for near Ballarat is ramping up.  It'll likely destroy much of the local potato cropping industry.  Just about every farm in the district has big signs up telling Ausnet where to go....

https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7306461/growers-say-potato-industry-at-risk-from-energy-proposal/?cs=4786
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The fire is now under control, with no flame present. It is bloody obvious that the entire facility did NOT burn to the ground. Just two of the 212 modules were destroyed:

Tesla Megapack fire finally under control, no word on delays to Victoria Big Battery RenewEconomy
Pretty fortunate in the end.  The containers are meant to do exactly that - contain a fire.  Although the fact that the adjacent battery caught fire should result in some re-evaluation of the spacing between them in future installations.

Anyway, opposition to the big 85m powerlines planned for near Ballarat is ramping up.  It'll likely destroy much of the local potato cropping industry.  Just about every farm in the district has big signs up telling Ausnet where to go....

https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/7306461/growers-say-potato-industry-at-risk-from-energy-proposal/?cs=4786
Carnot
I have some info on this, but it's not public yet, so I can't say much. The article says that the big question will be whether this is a manufacturing, install or production fault. For me none of that matters much, the more important question is how did the fire get out of the container and more scarily into the next? This is really serious, Class D fires involving electricity are scary.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

New technology coal-fired powerplant in South Africa goes BOOM!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/worlds-newest-and-most-expensive-coal-plant-explodes-after-hydrogen-leak/

Also worth noting that Tomago smelter in NSW is going to go to 100% renewable supply by 2029.  That should kill off Bayswater power station which is great news:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/tomagos-pivot-to-renewables-could-spell-end-for-biggest-coal-generator/
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Umm no.

It's not that simple nor is Tomago the only customer..
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
New technology coal-fired powerplant in South Africa goes BOOM!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/worlds-newest-and-most-expensive-coal-plant-explodes-after-hydrogen-leak/
Carnot
Beat me to it. My colleagues and I, although not employed in the energy sector, were handed out information about this explosion at our toolbox meeting this morning. What the reneweconomy story didn't contain was the fact that the Hitachi boilers are also beset with design faults which will take another two years to rectify. The boilers had nothing to do with this incident of course, but you would think by now that it would be known how to build them. What a white elephant this model, supercritical coal fired power station has turned out to be. How could anyone justify the cost?

Hydrogen explosions are rare but nothing new. There was one involving Unit 3 at Hazelwood in 1979 which resulted in the deaths of four people. Also at Hazelwood, inexperienced operators not long after the privatitasion purge allowed some turbines to get wet. More recently a turbine at Callide power station in Queensland was catastrophically destroyed when the rotor touched the stator. A few months ago at Yallourn, a pulverising mill destroyed itself which would have killed anyone if they were nearby at the time.

The point is, if something goes horribly wrong with a generating unit that produces hundreds of MW, that capacity is immediately removed from the grid, sometimes for months or years, not to mention the danger to personnel. By comparison, we've probably all seen the footage put forward by anti-renewable chest thumpers showing a solitary wind turbine on fire or dropping a blade - for the resultant loss of a couple of megawatts - or the inference that a whole battery facility has been destroyed, even though it was only 2/212 of it.
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

Power companies charging for export has just been approved, starting 2025.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-13/solar-panel-charge-move-upsets-owners-but-welfare-groups-welcome/100371724

Anyone care to predict how this will go for the installation industry?

I started planning on setting up my own battery storage months ago, it's not complicated. There is no way I'm going to pay for what I'm producing.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Power companies charging for export has just been approved, starting 2025.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-13/solar-panel-charge-move-upsets-owners-but-welfare-groups-welcome/100371724

Anyone care to predict how this will go for the installation industry?

I started planning on setting up my own battery storage months ago, it's not complicated. There is no way I'm going to pay for what I'm producing.
Madjikthise
Easy, if this applies to small scale entities, apply it to large entities too.

If implemented it will save non solar households $15pa, factor in the cost of putting reversible meters that can also record import/export against time, and their $15 saving will be a nett $200+ cost.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Power companies charging for export has just been approved, starting 2025.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-13/solar-panel-charge-move-upsets-owners-but-welfare-groups-welcome/100371724

Anyone care to predict how this will go for the installation industry?

I started planning on setting up my own battery storage months ago, it's not complicated. There is no way I'm going to pay for what I'm producing.
Madjikthise
It shouldn't have too big an impact as no one should be stupid enough to be putting solar panels on their home with the aim to be a mini power station and returns for doing so have been in decline for a number of years with midday wholesale power prices frequenctly below $10 MW/h and often less than $0 MW/h. This was always going to come and we actually talked about this about 5 or more years ago about what happens when the solar out put during the day overloads the demand with limitations on how far back you can roll a coal power station.

The aim of allowing the wholesale price to roll into the feed in tarrif price will help drive the battery installation component of the whole home solar industry. The original solar installations were never fully justified on economic grounds and likewise the battery installation's are the same, however it will change with increrasing demand and declining technology cost.

Don't pay to sell for what your producing by not exporting, thats exactly what they want/need, for you and others to stop exporting.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
New technology coal-fired powerplant in South Africa goes BOOM!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/worlds-newest-and-most-expensive-coal-plant-explodes-after-hydrogen-leak/


The point is, if something goes horribly wrong with a generating unit that produces hundreds of MW, that capacity is immediately removed from the grid, sometimes for months or years, not to mention the danger to personnel. By comparison, we've probably all seen the footage put forward by anti-renewable chest thumpers showing a solitary wind turbine on fire or dropping a blade - for the resultant loss of a couple of megawatts - or the inference that a whole battery facility has been destroyed, even though it was only 2/212 of it.
DirtyBallast
The point is this events are very rare and the Sth African power sector is riddled with incompetenc and corruption and hardly a bench mark for the coal sector.  Heavy industry in general prefers to operate large but less production units in any sector so I don't see having large coal turbines to be an issue. Wind, Solar and chem battery would given half a chance replicate this and is trying to move in that direction to reduce costs.The comments refering to safety is neither accurate or relevent.

The coal sector also provides 24/7/365 power supply so far less complex than the wind/solar/storage and gas back up so each has their strengths and weaknesses.

Moral of the story, these events are not an argument for Pro-RE.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
There's a huge high pressure system sitting right on top of our nation at the moment and it's completely killed any productive effort from the wind farms -


Look at how much heavy lifting black and brown coal is doing in VIC/NSW/QLD. We'll never be able to replace that with unreliable renewables - it'll be impossible in weather like this.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
There's a huge high pressure system sitting right on top of our nation at the moment and it's completely killed any productive effort from the wind farms -


Look at how much heavy lifting black and brown coal is doing in VIC/NSW/QLD. We'll never be able to replace that with unreliable renewables - it'll be impossible in weather like this.
don_dunstan
Notice that the battery is charging whilst there is barely a snifter of 'green' electrons in the system, let alone an excess - SA actually importing electrons at the time. 'Batteries for green energy storage' - yeah just another RE lie.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Notice that the battery is charging whilst there is barely a snifter of 'green' electrons in the system, let alone an excess - SA actually importing electrons at the time. 'Batteries for green energy storage' - yeah just another RE lie.
Aaron
Has anyone actually made a claim that the grid batteries available now are used to store RE power only?

The way battery technology is headed I think even if you were building a greenfield grid in say 2025 or beyond based on coal or nuclear without the benefit of hydro to providng peaking there would be grid batteries used instead of say peaking gas / diesel.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Wind energy wasting space again tonight but if there's any consolation its in the fact that the Tesla battery here in South Australia is contributing a whopping 101 MW during peak tonight (until it goes flat in half an hour or so).

  Carnot Minister for Railways

Coal will be dead before too long in NSW.

34GW of renewables planned for New England region:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/nsw-stuns-with-34gw-of-wind-solar-proposals-for-new-england-renewable-zone/

And Twiggy's new big gas turbine powerplant at Port Kembla to eventually run on 100% green hydrogen (not the SMR variety) by 2030:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/nsw-fast-tracks-andrew-forrest-backed-gas-hydrogen-port-kembla-power-station/

The rail industry really needs to think of ways to get onboard IMO - ie. Hydrogen powered trains and haulage, before they get left behind.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Typical evening NEM loads are around 80% coal - you're delusional if you think renewables can replace that any time soon. It just won't happen.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
A friend sent me a photo of a petrol powered roadside assist vehicle towing a diesel powered generator which was in turn charging a stationery EV. The caption said: "The future is stupid".

Anyone who believes in "green electricity" is delusional at best.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
A friend sent me a photo of a petrol powered roadside assist vehicle towing a diesel powered generator which was in turn charging a stationery EV. The caption said: "The future is stupid".

Anyone who believes in "green electricity" is delusional at best.
Graham4405
Written by some cuntry bumpkin.

Same as the one sent me a few years ago with a pigs head superimposed on the front of a W-Class tram..."This will keep the Muslims off public transport!"

Green electricity is far more credible than clean coal (which is equivalent to dry water, cold heat or any other oxymoron that you can think of). Renewables are HAPPENING.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Coal will be dead before too long in NSW.

34GW of renewables planned for New England region:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/nsw-stuns-with-34gw-of-wind-solar-proposals-for-new-england-renewable-zone/

And Twiggy's new big gas turbine powerplant at Port Kembla to eventually run on 100% green hydrogen (not the SMR variety) by 2030:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/nsw-fast-tracks-andrew-forrest-backed-gas-hydrogen-port-kembla-power-station/

The rail industry really needs to think of ways to get onboard IMO - ie. Hydrogen powered trains and haulage, before they get left behind.
Carnot
The coal plants have up to 20 years to operate ad will close at the rate of one every 2-3 years. Its unlikely to go much faster as lots of issues and challenges to overcome.

You need 4GW of solar name plate capacity to supply 1 GW of power 24/7.

You need 3GW of wind name plate capacity to supply 1 GW of power 24/7.

Of all the annoucements, assume around 20% actually see the light of day going by other industrial projects. Especially when there is hype for a particular product there are proposals left right and centre. If you need an example go through the wiki page on wind power stations. Operating, underconsrtuction, approved, proposed, cancelled.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
A friend sent me a photo of a petrol powered roadside assist vehicle towing a diesel powered generator which was in turn charging a stationery EV. The caption said: "The future is stupid".

Anyone who believes in "green electricity" is delusional at best.
Written by some cuntry bumpkin.

Same as the one sent me a few years ago with a pigs head superimposed on the front of a W-Class tram..."This will keep the Muslims off public transport!"

Green electricity is far more credible than clean coal (which is equivalent to dry water, cold heat or any other oxymoron that you can think of). Renewables are HAPPENING.
DirtyBallast
Its like the photo of extension cord in a pool plugged in a 4 plug extension floating on a thong. No one really believes ths wasn't set up.

However right now the road side assist is probably real and a question to @graham, what is wrong with that?

The car's battery went flat, its being recharged. Today its diesel genset. In future it will be EV truck with very large battery or H2 etc.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
However right now the road side assist is probably real and a question to @Graham4405, what is wrong with that?
RTT_Rules
Did I say there was something wrong with it? I simply mentioned a photo that was sent to me. I thought it was funny.

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