Aussie politics thread (2)

 
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
@don_dunstan. Of course Meghan Markle is a liar. Because according to you only Angry old white dudes and Pauline Hanson (an angry racist bogan) tell the truth, right?

Michael

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
A    Don't think from what I've read there was a police investigation. Lack of evidence with the death of the woman. Morrison was using the so called police investigation as a deflection. So perhaps you should catch upon current events  I dare say you were cheering it on when Emma Husar and Bill Shorten ( both found not guilty)were under the gun, but now a couple of conservative liars have been found out that's different

B See the 4 Corners episode called   "Inside the Canberra Bubble" and then have a real read of some his previous history written in various publications. Two failed marriages and various reported episodes of predatory behaviour. Not forgetting denying the allegations against him, but claiming he hasn't read the dossier.

C The only way Porter can clear himself of the stigma and damage to his reputation is to have a thorough independent, transparent enquiry.  He can never be found guilty of the current allegations, but if more comes out of poor behaviour, he is going to be totally stuffed. That's why he doesn't want one.

As for political mileage, all of them have been pretty quiet, understandably so. Penny Wong and Sarah Hanson Young have made a few comments, the y received and read the original dossier, fair enough. Imagine if they hadn't, Morrison would have buried his copy.


Witch hunt, you are joking aren't you. Scott Morrison said in 2019    " all rape victims should be believed." Hypocrisy knows no bounds.


So you don't condone proven cases of sexual assault, good, do you condone initial investigations into alleged sexual assault?
wobert
Point of order

1) "....the so called police investigation as a deflection". You calling the police investigation "so called", so does this mean every case on every subject the relevant police has investigated needs a parliamentary enquiry?

2) " Two failed marriages", so now half the male population at age 50 are suspect rapists based on this statement.
"various reported episodes of predatory behaviour", reported by who?

So according to what you say, Ms Mangle down the roads rumors have more value than a police investigation.

3) "Not forgetting denying the allegations against him, but claiming he hasn't read the dossier."

This is or I thought at least is Australia, not China. Leave politics out of this and remember, Innocent until proven guilty. The Police have investigated, based on the evidence available at the time not proceeded to trial, case is closed for f#$k sake unless YOU have new evidence then take it to the police and get them to follow up. Kanagroo court is not the police.

4) "Porter can clear himself of the stigma and damage to his reputation is to have a thorough independent, transparent enquiry.  He can never be found guilty of the current allegations, but if more comes out of poor behavior, he is going to be totally stuffed."

He had an independent enquiry, its called a police investigation. What you are indicating is the police are incompetent and a few public servant bureaucrats can do a better job 30 + year later with still no witness to the alleged incident.

5)
" all rape victims should be believed." Hypocrisy knows no bounds."
Be careful how you misinterupt this. The PM didn't mean the victim should be believed at all cost and based on a kanagroo court the accused is guilty and to hell with any police investigation. The intent is to take the victims comments on face value and proceed with an investigation, then trial. That is the rule of law in this country! Once again you are not in China.

The victim is no longer available, there is no new evidence, stop being caught up in this brain cell destroying witch hunt.

6)  "As for political mileage, all of them have been pretty quiet, understandably so. Penny Wong and Sarah Hanson Young have made a few comments," The political milage has been gained, they know it will $tick like $hit to a blanket, they don't need to say anything more and if they did it would risk them drawing attention away from accusation.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Girlfriend, you wish you were a tenth as interesting as I am.
Not really; I couldn't stand all the adulation and hero worship that you have to endure.
P.S. Give me your mail address, and I'll send you a little book that explains the difference between girls and boys.
Valvegear
Get with the times you ancient binary person, that book is now banned as there is no difference. Laughing
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Girlfriend, you wish you were a tenth as interesting as I am.
Not really; I couldn't stand all the adulation and hero worship that you have to endure.
P.S. Give me your mail address, and I'll send you a little book that explains the difference between girls and boys.
In all seriousness I don't want to talk about the allegations against Christian Porter - I don't know why the Labor Party is pursuing this, it's getting akin to the Starr Report about Clinton!

Let the justice system sort it out, this Four Corners thing denies Porter natural justice. There's no living witness - even less evidence than with Pell - and people out there still want a full inquiry.
don_dunstan
The only enquiry that needs to be done is to find out who is spreading these accusations and ask them why they should be allowed to continue to hold their seat and not be sued for slander.

If anyone has any new evidence on any crime, they are welcome to take it to the police at any time. The fact that Porter is a Politician doesn't not change this process.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
1   Umm Shane, there was no police investigation

2Have you seen the original 4Corners episode  in November I think "Inside the Canberra bubble"

3FFS

4 Their has been no independent enquiry  The woman withdrew her complaint and never made a formal signed statement. So the police closed the file.
5 How do you know what the PM meant?    And having a reputation of a bald faced liar, not many of us believe much of what he says
6 So your poor little conservative team of do nothings have been caught up in lying and coverups.  Brittany Higgins springs to mind.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Read this and see who's calling for an independent enquiry

https://thenewdaily.com.au/opinion/2021/03/08/paul-bongiorno-porter-government/
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
And this and you'll see the depths that this present government have sunk. And Porter is not a fit and proper person to be a Minister in our Federal government

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/christian-porter-responsible-for-serial-breaches-of-the-law-now-cries-rule-of-law/
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Don't get me wrong Shane I find the current ALP about as inspiring as the Victorian LNP, but hopefully with some semblance of honesty.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
1   Umm Shane, there was no police investigation

2Have you seen the original 4Corners episode  in November I think "Inside the Canberra bubble"

3FFS

4 Their has been no independent enquiry  The woman withdrew her complaint and never made a formal signed statement. So the police closed the file.
5 How do you know what the PM meant?    And having a reputation of a bald faced liar, not many of us believe much of what he says
6 So your poor little conservative team of do nothings have been caught up in lying and coverups.  Brittany Higgins springs to mind.
wobert
1. So you are saying at no stage no one has bothered to report this to the police including from the alleged victim and I say alleged because its not just a matter of did this guy do it, its also a case did anything happen at all.

2. No and I have no interest in doing so.

3. So you don't support "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" that our legal system is built on?

4. Wait, so in #1 you say there has been no police investigation and now you are saying there was, but the alleged victim withdrew her complaint so it was stopped. Hello, doesn't this set off warning bells that no crime may have actually taken place?

5. How do you know what the PM meant? I think it would be obvious to everyone exactly what the PM meant as it is applied by the law and society expectations.

So you are putting reputations ahead of hard factual evidence? Again what happened to "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" that our legal system is built on?

6. The fact you keep using words such as "Liberal" or "Conservatism" is showing your true colours on this and your agenda and its not about seeking justice. Not I have not done the same, and I would say exactly the same thing if the accusations was against LAB member or Green or IND or a normal member of the public including you. Kanagroos courts are not what we are about.

Brittany Higgins is a completely separate issue and I've already indicated that something doesn't add up here, but let the police and the courts do what they are paid to do.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Ehttps://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/08/julie-bishops-takes-aim-at-federal-government-ministers-over-handling-of-allegations  Even Julie Bishop has dropped a bucket on them
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
And this and you'll see the depths that this present government have sunk. And Porter is not a fit and proper person to be a Minister in our Federal government

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/christian-porter-responsible-for-serial-breaches-of-the-law-now-cries-rule-of-law/
wobert
The rule of law is about treating each case on its merits and only the facts leading to that case. Reputation and or alleged past potential activities are not considered unless there is a direct link, Lindy Chamberlin case comes to mind.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Don't get me wrong Shane I find the current ALP about as inspiring as the Victorian LNP, but hopefully with some semblance of honesty.
wobert
I think you will find they are as equally honest as others in the house.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
1   Umm Shane, there was no police investigation

2Have you seen the original 4Corners episode  in November I think "Inside the Canberra bubble"

3FFS

4 Their has been no independent enquiry  The woman withdrew her complaint and never made a formal signed statement. So the police closed the file.
5 How do you know what the PM meant?    And having a reputation of a bald faced liar, not many of us believe much of what he says
6 So your poor little conservative team of do nothings have been caught up in lying and coverups.  Brittany Higgins springs to mind.
1. So you are saying at no stage no one has bothered to report this to the police including from the alleged victim and I say alleged because its not just a matter of did this guy do it, its also a case did anything happen at all.

2. No and I have no interest in doing so.

3. So you don't support "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" that our legal system is built on?

4. Wait, so in #1 you say there has been no police investigation and now you are saying there was, but the alleged victim withdrew her complaint so it was stopped. Hello, doesn't this set off warning bells that no crime may have actually taken place?

5. How do you know what the PM meant? I think it would be obvious to everyone exactly what the PM meant as it is applied by the law and society expectations.

So you are putting reputations ahead of hard factual evidence? Again what happened to "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" that our legal system is built on?

6. The fact you keep using words such as "Liberal" or "Conservatism" is showing your true colours on this and your agenda and its not about seeking justice. Not I have not done the same, and I would say exactly the same thing if the accusations was against LAB member or Green or IND or a normal member of the public including you. Kanagroos courts are not what we are about.

.
RTT_Rules
1 There was the beginings of a police investigation, the women did not do a formal statement, then withdrew her previous statements ,unfortunately died. Police closed file
2 Well you should and get some context, other wise we're both wasting our time
3 Yes I do support the rule of law, unlike Robodebt
4No
5Pretty self explanatory I would have thought
6 Really

"Brittany Higgins is a completely separate issue and I've already indicated that something doesn't add up here, but let the police and the courts do what they are paid to do"
Yep

The Police have gone as far as they can in the Porter case. end of story That's why if Porter wants to clear his name an independent enquiry is the only way.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
1 There was the beginings of a police investigation, the women did not do a formal statement, then withdrew her previous statements ,unfortunately died. Police closed file
2 Well you should and get some context, other wise we're both wasting our time
3 Yes I do support the rule of law, unlike Robodebt
4No
5Pretty self explanatory I would have thought
6 Really

"Brittany Higgins is a completely separate issue and I've already indicated that something doesn't add up here, but let the police and the courts do what they are paid to do"
Yep

The Police have gone as far as they can in the Porter case. end of story That's why if Porter wants to clear his name an independent enquiry is the only way.
wobert
1) Time frame between her reporting to police and dying was?

2) No, I have no interest in media beatups.

3) Why are you are carrying on like you don't?

4) If someone raises a complaint with the police and then later withdraws their compliant then the accused is not even accused. So lets stop trying to pretend they were proven guilty.

5) I think most people knows exactly what it meant and you are dreaming that PM meant take her words as true and hang the accused then think again. Its called commonsense. The PM cannot infer going outside the law.

6) Yes, really, let the courts sort it out if a crime took place.

7) If the police have gone as far as they can, then its case closed. If the guy is actually guilty, then only he will ever know and likely take it to his grave and a witch hunt isn't going to prove this regardless. However the rule of law currently states he is innocent and as such that's what he's entitled too.  

I believe the timing is supposed to be 1989, I was 20 then, I'm fairly familiar with the culture of the day. While its not 2021, its certainly not 1950.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Don't get me wrong Shane I find the current ALP about as inspiring as the Victorian LNP, but hopefully with some semblance of honesty.
I think you will find they are as equally honest as others in the house.
RTT_Rules
No, we have reached a new low with this government

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/the-need-for-a-federal-icac-qed/
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
1 There was the beginings of a police investigation, the women did not do a formal statement, then withdrew her previous statements ,unfortunately died. Police closed file
2 Well you should and get some context, other wise we're both wasting our time
3 Yes I do support the rule of law, unlike Robodebt
4No
5Pretty self explanatory I would have thought
6 Really

"Brittany Higgins is a completely separate issue and I've already indicated that something doesn't add up here, but let the police and the courts do what they are paid to do"
Yep

The Police have gone as far as they can in the Porter case. end of story That's why if Porter wants to clear his name an independent enquiry is the only way.
1) Time frame between her reporting to police and dying was?

2) No, I have no interest in media beatups.

3) Why are you are carrying on like you don't?

4) If someone raises a complaint with the police and then later withdraws their compliant then the accused is not even accused. So lets stop trying to pretend they were proven guilty.

5) I think most people knows exactly what it meant and you are dreaming that PM meant take her words as true and hang the accused then think again. Its called commonsense. The PM cannot infer going outside the law.

6) Yes, really, let the courts sort it out if a crime took place.

7) If the police have gone as far as they can, then its case closed. If the guy is actually guilty, then only he will ever know and likely take it to his grave and a witch hunt isn't going to prove this regardless. However the rule of law currently states he is innocent and as such that's what he's entitled too.  

I believe the timing is supposed to be 1989, I was 20 then, I'm fairly familiar with the culture of the day. While its not 2021, its certainly not 1950.
RTT_Rules
1 Look it up yourself, Watch the 2 four corners programs and it lays down the time line of  all the events
2 Nah, not in your schema
3 I'm not
4I'm not
5 The PM makes a statement, and we shouldn't take him at his word. You are kidding aren't you?
6Done with
7Well if he doesn't want to clear his name and rescue  what's left of his reputation and career, that's his problem. He will be forever tarnished with this accusation.


This really is boring going over the same stuff over and over.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Don't get me wrong Shane I find the current ALP about as inspiring as the Victorian LNP, but hopefully with some semblance of honesty.
I think you will find they are as equally honest as others in the house.
No, we have reached a new low with this government

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/the-need-for-a-federal-icac-qed/
wobert
Maybe, maybe not.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
1 Look it up yourself, Watch the 2 four corners programs and it lays down the time line of  all the events
2 Nah, not in your schema
3 I'm not
4I'm not
5 The PM makes a statement, and we shouldn't take him at his word. You are kidding aren't you?
6Done with
7Well if he doesn't want to clear his name and rescue  what's left of his reputation and career, that's his problem. He will be forever tarnished with this accusation.


This really is boring going over the same stuff over and over.
wobert
1) Ok, so by the sounds of it the timing is obviously not supporting your comments

2) I wouldn't watch regardless of the topic as I'd always be too busy

3) You are, you keep doing it.

4) You keep doing it, simply sharing those links clearly indicates you believe the guy is guilt and should go

5) The statement should be taken for the context it was intended, not some twisted interpretation, or are you saying that all victims of Rape are 100% correct in their allegations, no trials are needed and the accused should be thrown in jail. We know the PM certainly didn't mean that, its called commonsense.

6) Yes, you should be done, she's raised a complaint, let the police do their job

7) His name was cleared by the police, what else is there to do?

So if I accuse you of breaking into my house, do you need to have a tax payer funded enquiry or is the police and if required courts verdict sufficient?

Of if I later withdraw my complaint, are you still potentially gulity and do we need a taxpayer funded enquiry to prove you innocent?

8) Boring because you either believe in the justice system we have in place has done its job and the matter is closed or you go chase fairy's and keep trying to prove what the police have determined is not justified to investigate.  

EDIT: Sex allegations never go away. No enquiry will change this as those like you who think he's guilty will not change their view. Making a false rape claim is dirty and effective way to destroy a guys reputation (think what's his name that was in Ecuador(?) embassy in London) because they know half the population will automatically think there is potential guilt because a sister said it and women have the entire time frame of human history as their argument.

I'm still struggling to understand how requesting an enquiry to an incident the police have deemed closed can be anything more than a witch hunt and if this case deems it worthy then when does it stop?

Your choice?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
1 Look it up yourself, Watch the 2 four corners programs and it lays down the time line of  all the events
2 Nah, not in your schema
3 I'm not
4I'm not
5 The PM makes a statement, and we shouldn't take him at his word. You are kidding aren't you?
6Done with
7Well if he doesn't want to clear his name and rescue  what's left of his reputation and career, that's his problem. He will be forever tarnished with this accusation.


This really is boring going over the same stuff over and over.
1) Ok, so by the sounds of it the timing is obviously not supporting your comments

2) I wouldn't watch regardless of the topic as I'd always be too busy

3) You are, you keep doing it.

4) You keep doing it, simply sharing those links clearly indicates you believe the guy is guilt and should go

5) The statement should be taken for the context it was intended, not some twisted interpretation, or are you saying that all victims of Rape are 100% correct in their allegations, no trials are needed and the accused should be thrown in jail. We know the PM certainly didn't mean that, its called commonsense.

6) Yes, you should be done, she's raised a complaint, let the police do their job

7) His name was cleared by the police, what else is there to do?

So if I accuse you of breaking into my house, do you need to have a tax payer funded enquiry or is the police and if required courts verdict sufficient?

Of if I later withdraw my complaint, are you still potentially gulity and do we need a taxpayer funded enquiry to prove you innocent?

8) Boring because you either believe in the justice system we have in place has done its job and the matter is closed or you go chase fairy's and keep trying to prove what the police have determined is not justified to investigate.  

EDIT: Sex allegations never go away. No enquiry will change this as those like you who think he's guilty will not change their view. Making a false rape claim is dirty and effective way to destroy a guys reputation (think what's his name that was in Ecuador(?) embassy in London) because they know half the population will automatically think there is potential guilt because a sister said it and women have the entire time frame of human history as their argument.

I'm still struggling to understand how requesting an enquiry to an incident the police have deemed closed can be anything more than a witch hunt and if this case deems it worthy then when does it stop?

Your choice?
RTT_Rules
1If you want the detailed timing of events, watch the 2nd of the 4 corners program( last night) Timeline in regards to the Porter allegation
2 You've got plenty of time to spend here.
3 Whatever
4 Giving you context
5 Semantics  you saw the quote, a vast majority know what he meant
6 Why do you keep repeating the same thing.
7Independent investigation, he can't be found guilty, but he can clear his name. If you read the various links you would see that far more emminent people than me are saying the same thing.
8It's his reputation, not mine, With out  an independent investigation, to clear his name, he will be forever tainted.  And that is a fact

As Paul Barry said on media watch after 4Corners. The whole thing has been handled appallingly, if Morrison and Porter had come out straight away on release of the allegation, and said something along the lines of we will be having an independent investigation and the AG is confident  he will be found not guilty of any inappropriate behaviour. That would have damn near stopped the absolute frenzy that occurred while both Morrison and Porter hid.  And once the frenzy started in the media and social media, which can't be underestimated
, people started digging. A day or so later Porters Wiki pages were being altered from addresses in Canberra, about debate teams in Adelaide in 1986 an Sydney in 1988, he was nailed.

So then the media and several hundred thousand amateur sleuths started looking into Porters past, probably starting with the 4 Corners program and what a frenzy ensued. And because of his previous behaviour an absolutely huge number of people are upto speed on the issue.

And that's one of the differences with Shorten. Shortens past is not littered with continual inappropriate behaviour . And by reading various links and articles  and whatever else, you can get an understanding and proper context of a particular issue. And you flatly refuse to do this Shane, especially when it's having a crack at  your beloved Tory government
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
@don_dunstan. Of course Meghan Markle is a liar. Because according to you only Angry old white dudes and Pauline Hanson (an angry racist bogan) tell the truth, right?

Michael
mejhammers1
C'mon now Michael, at the very start of that interview she said she knew nothing of the British Royals but then her (admittedly estranged) sister today shows the photo of them both in front of Buckingham Palace as teenagers and says Megs was a huge fan of the Royals at that age.

When Meghan said categorically, unequivocally right at the start that she'd never heard of the Royals and knew nothing at all of them prior to meeting Harry my B.S. alarm when off immediately. Testimony from her family aside, she's not a stupid woman, she seems fairly astute and worldly - I really can't imagine she knew nothing at all of the British Royals and their story well into her thirties.

I'm not sure why she told that lie, seemed to me like the whole thing got off to a bad start with that clunker.
  wobert Chief Commissioner
  wobert Chief Commissioner
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
1If you want the detailed timing of events, watch the 2nd of the 4 corners program( last night) Timeline in regards to the Porter allegation
2 You've got plenty of time to spend here.
3 Whatever
4 Giving you context
5 Semantics  you saw the quote, a vast majority know what he meant
6 Why do you keep repeating the same thing.
7Independent investigation, he can't be found guilty, but he can clear his name. If you read the various links you would see that far more emminent people than me are saying the same thing.
8It's his reputation, not mine, With out  an independent investigation, to clear his name, he will be forever tainted.  And that is a fact

As Paul Barry said on media watch after 4Corners. The whole thing has been handled appallingly, if Morrison and Porter had come out straight away on release of the allegation, and said something along the lines of we will be having an independent investigation and the AG is confident  he will be found not guilty of any inappropriate behaviour. That would have damn near stopped the absolute frenzy that occurred while both Morrison and Porter hid.  And once the frenzy started in the media and social media, which can't be underestimated
, people started digging. A day or so later Porters Wiki pages were being altered from addresses in Canberra, about debate teams in Adelaide in 1986 an Sydney in 1988, he was nailed.

So then the media and several hundred thousand amateur sleuths started looking into Porters past, probably starting with the 4 Corners program and what a frenzy ensued. And because of his previous behaviour an absolutely huge number of people are upto speed on the issue.

And that's one of the differences with Shorten. Shortens past is not littered with continual inappropriate behaviour . And by reading various links and articles  and whatever else, you can get an understanding and proper context of a particular issue. And you flatly refuse to do this Shane, especially when it's having a crack at  your beloved Tory government
wobert
Who has done the digging? Conspiracy theory journalists with a axe to grind?

How many years has this guy been in politics and only now they dig this up?

Shorten has his own credibility issues, which is why he is not PM and never will be.

Yes, commonsense knows exactly what the PM wrote, not narrow minded twisted versions that are completely illogical.

Once again, you are happy for taxpayers to fund an investigation into an event that took place decades ago where the police have concluded nothing to see here?

Again you kill you argument by resorting to politics which again shows that you don't care about following usual police process, just a political victory.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Wobbles has gone off the deep end.....
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
@don_dunstan Yes Meghan has embellished some things regarding the interview. You would have to be under a rock not to know of the UK royal family. But she is mistrusted and vilified more than any other Royal since Diana. Even more than Prince Andrew who was friends witb a convicted Paedo.

She is accused of being a social climber. What because she is mixed race and Kate Middleton who is also from humble begginings is not. I wonder why?

Michael

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