Aussie politics thread (2)

 
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Why is this descending into a Kangaroo Court?  Have many journalists forgotten the Rule of Law, Innocent until Proven Guilty, etc etc?

Or are they still upset about a certain high-profile case the went to the High Court (and had a unanimous acquittal) and now they want revenge?  (And before anyone accuses me of defending said person - his conscience would weigh heavily on him if he was in fact guilty, and he will face an ultimate judge in the end)

Let the police and the courts decide.

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Why is this descending into a Kangaroo Court?
"Carnot"
It isn't. Nobody has been named and accused.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Why is this descending into a Kangaroo Court?
It isn't. Nobody has been named and accused.
Valvegear
It is.  Even on this RP thread accusations are already flying.  And now we have Malcolm Turnbull (a Barrister who should know better), behaving as the ultimate narcissist and coming up with wild theories.

Stark raving bonkers!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
In the case of the alleged cabinet minister NSW police have formally announced that there is nothing to see there.

No surprise, a possibly unsworn statement, hearsay and deceased claimant on an event from something like 30 years ago doesn’t seem to have a very high likelihood of success in trial.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
It is.  Even on this RP thread accusations are already flying.
Carnot
Oh? Who has been accused of which offence on RP?
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Allegations against a person should not be aired in public.  They are just one person's version of events.  Until someone is charged, by then Police usually have both sides of the story and claim they have enough legally obtained evidence, then the accused can be named.  Not forgetting that they are still presumed innocent until proven otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt.
Then there are groups that insist that the victim should be believed at all times.  They forget that unless there is enough evidence, any reasonable doubt must go to the accused.   Unfortunately,  time delays reduce evidence.
Then there are victims who are just plain vindictive shxxs.
I am not saying anything relating to these latest allegations against pollies or staffers.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
We have been through this before, but you still harp on.

Cars are not complex, that's why they are not made here.
Yeah, exactly. A car is exactly the same as a lump of coal or a ship-load of iron ore. It's not complex manufacture at all.
Replicate the production line of a submarine? One that's only be made a few times. What sort of production line do you really think there is Don? How many common parts are there Don? Why do you think these things cost billions Don?
There's no local production line here, Shane - that's why the price tag kept accelerating away from $90 billion. These lines of supply had to be established here in order to meet the conditions of the contract that specified an amount of local content.

Get it? That's why the costs were going through the roof.

I guess using the same argument as "cars aren't complex" you'll tell us in the same breath that submarines aren't complex which is why they SHOULD be made here. Right?
don_dunstan
A car is basically simple modern piece of hardware that is easily made in third world economies. The design of the car is however a different story and most cars are hence designed in Developed economies.

The main complexity in a car assembly line is QC, hence why the much of the QC teams from Australia's former car assembly plants found employment supporting assembly lines in Thailand and other locations and Ford, Toyota and until recently GM retained design teams in Australia and the former assembly plant operators were made redundant.

One more time for the Dummies Don, complex large Military hardware projects have a long history of going over budget and over time. A few examples include the Russian Aircraft carrier, the Chinese copy, the US's latest I think Ford class aircraft carrier and just about every fighter jet every built in the US and likely France, Sweden, Russia etc etc for years. Classic case of the military chief's having eyes bigger than their budgets teased by manufacturers who claim their "latest" technology is better than the competition, yet in reality none of it rarely exists and not up to standard, over promising and under delivering. Space industry is no different.

While Don may continue with his unpatriotic approach to design his fellow South Australian's a generation of jobs, thankfully others are thinking otherwise and this includes the govt managing the project and has not signed with France because it won't let the French take the jobs on shore (likely due to similar French govt/union pressure).

In addition we have today's announcement of the Australia designed and assembled Loyal Wingman project supported by Boeing.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I sense some confusion in this thread. There are two rape allegations currently being aired. In one of them the alleged victim is deceased (call it case A). In the other (case B), the alleged victim is alive and has identified herself.

The alleged offender in case A is the subject of conjecture.  In case B, the name of the alleged offender is known, but is being kept quiet.
Valvegear
Case B also photographs well and looks like butter won't melt in her mouth so naturally her statements are treated as 100% correct and the accused should be through to the sharks following trial by media.

While I am not doubting her claims, again I still have to wonder. 4 women over 4-5 years were victims and at no time no one nor anyone they mentioned the incident to thought to raise this with the police. Even if it have been circulated to senior political leaders like SCOMO or actually anyone, no one in an industry with more holes than a ship load of swiss cheese leaked this?

IF these accusations are proven correct, surely they must go down in history as Canberra's best kept secret.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Porter has denied all allegations.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Porter has denied all allegations.
Carnot
Considering the circumstances, ie lack of victim and potentially lack of evidence you'd be a fool to say otherwise guilty or not.

The problem is, even if he's not guilty, sexual assault allegations on high profile public individuals sticks likes $hit to a blanket and will likely cost him his career in politics and future career options.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Porter has denied all allegations.
Considering the circumstances, ie lack of victim and potentially lack of evidence you'd be a fool to say otherwise guilty or not.

The problem is, even if he's not guilty, sexual assault allegations on high profile public individuals sticks likes $hit to a blanket and will likely cost him his career in politics and future career options.
RTT_Rules
More or less agree.  Why would anyone pursue a career in public office if "Trial-by-Media" is all you'll cop, whether the allegations are baseless or true?  

Maybe we should elect robots instead of humans?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Turnbull wears his tin foil hat tighter than Pete Evans - I didn’t know that was even possible.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Porter should have named his accuser, you cannot defame a deceased person.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Turnbull wears his tin foil hat tighter than Pete Evans - I didn’t know that was even possible.
Aaron

Just when I thought that bloke couldn't stoop any lower...
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Porter should have named his accuser, you cannot defame a deceased person.
Aaron
Probably a bit harsh on her family though if he did.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Probably a bit harsh on her family though if he did.
"Carnot"
Possibly a bit harsh on Porter if he's innocent.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Porter has denied all allegations.
Considering the circumstances, ie lack of victim and potentially lack of evidence you'd be a fool to say otherwise guilty or not.

The problem is, even if he's not guilty, sexual assault allegations on high profile public individuals sticks likes $hit to a blanket and will likely cost him his career in politics and future career options.
More or less agree.  Why would anyone pursue a career in public office if "Trial-by-Media" is all you'll cop, whether the allegations are baseless or true?  

Maybe we should elect robots instead of humans?
Carnot
Yup

Personally even as a no body I would rather be accused of murder than rape.

For murder i think my wife would listen to my story and make a judgement call and then stand by that. You can even have reasonable grounds for self defense, guilty until proven innocent

For rape, I think for every female I know, innocence will likely need to be demonstrated and even then would they believe it? I'm sure the attack on the sisterhood would be harder for them to pick a side and stand by it. Even if they believe you, you can just imagine anything you say for the rest of your life will be questioned, even if not verbally. There is likely to be that subtle thing of never being left alone with female and likely male minors for any reason anywhere.  


I know politicians cop alot of crap of how useless they are perceived to be and overpaid. But honestly, I wouldn't do that job for the money and conditions currently on offer. Place your career on hold and potential financial security while you dedicate months of your life trying to convince the party to let you run then trying to convince the public to vote for you despite the fact that most are really voting for one of two people/parties already in Canberra. Then risk being voted out for the same reason. For Federal politicians they don't even know how long they will have the job until the next election, where as most states are fixed term.

Everything you do will always be seen as wrong and what about the average Joe crap....
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Porter should have named his accuser, you cannot defame a deceased person.
Probably a bit harsh on her family though if he did.
Carnot
You have a right to know your accuser.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Porter should have named his accuser, you cannot defame a deceased person.
Probably a bit harsh on her family though if he did.
You have a right to know your accuser.
RTT_Rules
I can't see what Turnbull has done wrong? It appears that he is pushing for a new coronial enquiry into the death of the accuser which could be a useful way of determining what actually happened to the lady in question and maybe force the NSW to reopen the investigation. Someone on Twitter made a snide comment about the NSW Police Commissioner in that he has again put out the rubbish bins for Scommo.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
He knows who his accuser(s) is/are; Penny Wong being one of them who basically threatened to abuse parliamentary privilege by naming him, but Porter also well knows who the deceased woman is, he absolutely should have named her, smeg her family.

We have a right to the presumption of innocence, we have a general presumption against the admissibility of hearsay and unsworn statements, and the right to not have a public besmirching of someone’s character.

I hope that Porter finds the source of these ‘letters’ and launches a civil claim against them for everything they have.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Purportedly she withdrew the complaint to police shortly before her death.
  ANR Chief Commissioner
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
SCOMO's comments are 100% correct.

There will no be an inquiry as this assumes the police have not done their job.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It is looking like a shooting war...

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6236615405001

and ...

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6236582514001
ANR
2 men and a dog watch Sky News. As for Ms. Cretin and Mr. Dolt, what more can one say about these Murdoch mouth pieces? Both legends in their lunchtime.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Charming  
https://www.themonthly.com.au/today/rachel-withers/2021/04/2021/1614833230/if-he-did-it

And some of the links left me stunned

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