Victorian budget 2021/2022 and Election 2022 promises

 
  Tii Locomotive Driver

Is it time to ponder what may be in the May 2021 Victorian budget for transport infrastructure ?
The budget has been hit hard with COVID and all the current projects. There's still plenty to finish off by the next election and beyond, but what could we expect in this years budget ? Perhaps no new funding. this year for anything new but perhaps in 2022 I think we might see -
1. western rail plan detail and funding
2. Clyde extension
3. Baxter extension
4. More VLocity sets ?
5. V/Line.....anything after the RRR projects already announced.

Just crystal ball gazing here

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

Cut-backs probably.... Or money for more studies that never see the light of day.

Yes, I'm being cynical. But realistic.
  Tii Locomotive Driver

Cut-backs probably.... Or money for more studies that never see the light of day.

Yes, I'm being cynical. But realistic.
Carnot
Not sure about service cutbacks but I don't expect anything new this year until 2022 and election promises for beyond that. Planning studies seems to be very popular, I'd rather the money was used to boost bus frequency and sensible route reform. Bus PT in Melb is useless after 9 pm in suburbs.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is it time to ponder what may be in the May 2021 Victorian budget for transport infrastructure ?
The budget has been hit hard with COVID and all the current projects. There's still plenty to finish off by the next election and beyond, but what could we expect in this years budget ? Perhaps no new funding. this year for anything new but perhaps in 2022 I think we might see -
1. western rail plan detail and funding
2. Clyde extension
3. Baxter extension
4. More VLocity sets ?
5. V/Line.....anything after the RRR projects already announced.

Just crystal ball gazing here
Tii

A timely thread thanks.

never before have we seen so many people moving from the capital cities to the regional centres, I expect that is where the focus needs to be.

Clyde will not go far enough this needs to be longer and to the east.  Serious and I mean serious review and/or planning for an extension toward Phillip Island.  The population centres are also going down that way to.

Baxter is not enough electrify to Stony Point. Anything else is just delaying what should happen already.

Rail is urgently needed back to Drysdale.  This should be a priority

Passenger services between Geelong and Ballarart.

More vlocity sets no from me.  Start to get Geelong electrification underway. Once completed this would allow for many VLOCITY SETS to be redeployed.  Theyt called this fast rail where is it at?

Electrification for the Ballarat Line with more trains.  No more vlocity sets need new EMU style approach.
  Tii Locomotive Driver

Is it time to ponder what may be in the May 2021 Victorian budget for transport infrastructure ?
The budget has been hit hard with COVID and all the current projects. There's still plenty to finish off by the next election and beyond, but what could we expect in this years budget ? Perhaps no new funding. this year for anything new but perhaps in 2022 I think we might see -
1. western rail plan detail and funding
2. Clyde extension
3. Baxter extension
4. More VLocity sets ?
5. V/Line.....anything after the RRR projects already announced.

Just crystal ball gazing here

A timely thread thanks.

never before have we seen so many people moving from the capital cities to the regional centres, I expect that is where the focus needs to be.

Clyde will not go far enough this needs to be longer and to the east.  Serious and I mean serious review and/or planning for an extension toward Phillip Island.  The [population centres are also going down that way to.

Baxter is not enough electrify to Stony Point. Anything else is just delaying what should happen already.

Rail is urgently needed back to Drysdale.  This should be a priority

Passenger services between Geelong and Ballarart.

More vlocity sets no from me.  Start to get Geelong electrification underway. Once completed this would allow for many VLOCITY SETS to be redeployed.  Theyt called this fast rail where is it at?

Electrification for the Ballarat Line with more trains.  No more vlocity sets need new EMU style approach.
bevans
Thats a lot for one budget though. I can't see anything major major without Federal infrastructure funding in conjunction with Victorian state funding alongside. But 2022 is a likely federal election too, so being politics money will be to the other state regional areas I think. I feel it will still be basic extensions like Baxter and Clyde for now with business cases for the rest. Melton electrification probably before Geelong though and the Somerton link in the 2022-2025 years to match up with Metro tunnel opening.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Is it time to ponder what may be in the May 2021 Victorian budget for transport infrastructure ?
The budget has been hit hard with COVID and all the current projects. There's still plenty to finish off by the next election and beyond, but what could we expect in this years budget ? Perhaps no new funding. this year for anything new but perhaps in 2022 I think we might see -
1. western rail plan detail and funding
2. Clyde extension
3. Baxter extension
4. More VLocity sets ?
5. V/Line.....anything after the RRR projects already announced.

Just crystal ball gazing here

A timely thread thanks.

never before have we seen so many people moving from the capital cities to the regional centres, I expect that is where the focus needs to be.

Clyde will not go far enough this needs to be longer and to the east.  Serious and I mean serious review and/or planning for an extension toward Phillip Island.  The [population centres are also going down that way to.

Baxter is not enough electrify to Stony Point. Anything else is just delaying what should happen already.

Rail is urgently needed back to Drysdale.  This should be a priority

Passenger services between Geelong and Ballarart.

More vlocity sets no from me.  Start to get Geelong electrification underway. Once completed this would allow for many VLOCITY SETS to be redeployed.  Theyt called this fast rail where is it at?

Electrification for the Ballarat Line with more trains.  No more vlocity sets need new EMU style approach.
bevans
The shift to Regional areas does not warrant billions of dollars being spend on rail provision to areas not currently served by rail. I would rather money being spent on restructuring and upgrading the Bus Network in Melbourne. That is a more urgent priority.


Michael
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
NOTE: This is not what I think will be there, but what I think should be there:

1. Bus Network.

Major reforms are needed for Melbourne's suburban bus network. This is a no brainer, many of Melbourne's bus routes have not been touched since the 80s and don't reflect the needs of modern passengers.

40 minute frequencies on many routes, poor to non-existent service levels outside of old fashioned 9 - 5, Monday to Friday business hours and poor coverage of growth areas are just some of the things that need to be addressed to make the bus network more user friendly.


2. Western Rail Plan Detail & Funding.

I believe this is urgent, the entire triangle between Sunshine, Werribee and Melton will soon be fully developed,  but I feel those in government (on both sides) are happy to just let it go unspoken of. Metro tunnel, Airport rail and the Eastern section of Suburban Rail loop seem to be all the government, opposition and media are interested in.

What we need to know is how Melton and Wyndham Vale will fit in with the suburban network alongside Metro tunnel and Airport rail, and when we can expect some action on this.

  • Quad Sunshine - Melton including removal of all 7 level crossings between Caroline Springs and Melton
  • Quad Deer Park West - Wyndham Vale South
  • Spark existing track pairs - Sunshine - Melton
  • Spark existing track pairs - Deer Park West - Wyndham Vale South
  • Build + spark the missing link of the Triangle at Wyndham Vale South/ Werribee West that Baillieu + Mulder ditched when they butchered the RRL
  • New stations on both of these lines - Wyndham Vale South, Tarneit West, Truganina on the Wyndham Vale line and Mt Atkinson and Thornhill Park on the Melton line
  • New major stabling and maintenence facility at Ravenhall to service both lines
  • New EMUs to service both of these lines (to be maintained at the above mentioned facility)
  • Somehow find a way for these 2 lines to then be able to run into the city via Sunshine & Footscray

We have been told this plan is coming, but silence ever since.


------


As always, I won't hold my breath, it will most likely be just more announcements about SRL and Airport rail, and maybe some media fodder about a very fast train to Geelong (that will bypass that place where all the people actually live in-between the 2)

As far as I am concerned, they can leave the electrification to Geelong and Ballarat along with the next generation high-speed double deck EMUs to next year's pre-election budget, after the Western Rail Plan has been fully committed to and funded. But I doubt it will happen that way.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

NOTE: This is not what I think will be there, but what I think should be there:

1. Bus Network.

Major reforms are needed for Melbourne's suburban bus network. This is a no brainer, many of Melbourne's bus routes have not been touched since the 80s and don't reflect the needs of modern passengers.

40 minute frequencies on many routes, poor to non-existent service levels outside of old fashioned 9 - 5, Monday to Friday business hours and poor coverage of growth areas are just some of the things that need to be addressed to make the bus network more user friendly.


2. Western Rail Plan Detail & Funding.

I believe this is urgent, the entire triangle between Sunshine, Werribee and Melton will soon be fully developed,  but I feel those in government (on both sides) are happy to just let it go unspoken of. Metro tunnel, Airport rail and the Eastern section of Suburban Rail loop seem to be all the government, opposition and media are interested in.

What we need to know is how Melton and Wyndham Vale will fit in with the suburban network alongside Metro tunnel and Airport rail, and when we can expect some action on this.

  • Quad Sunshine - Melton including removal of all 7 level crossings between Caroline Springs and Melton
  • Quad Deer Park West - Wyndham Vale South
  • Spark existing track pairs - Sunshine - Melton
  • Spark existing track pairs - Deer Park West - Wyndham Vale South
  • Build + spark the missing link of the Triangle at Wyndham Vale South/ Werribee West that Baillieu + Mulder ditched when they butchered the RRL
  • New stations on both of these lines - Wyndham Vale South, Tarneit West, Truganina on the Wyndham Vale line and Mt Atkinson and Thornhill Park on the Melton line
  • New major stabling and maintenence facility at Ravenhall to service both lines
  • New EMUs to service both of these lines (to be maintained at the above mentioned facility)
  • Somehow find a way for these 2 lines to then be able to run into the city via Sunshine & Footscray

We have been told this plan is coming, but silence ever since.


------


As always, I won't hold my breath, it will most likely be just more announcements about SRL and Airport rail, and maybe some media fodder about a very fast train to Geelong (that will bypass that place where all the people actually live in-between the 2)

As far as I am concerned, they can leave the electrification to Geelong and Ballarat along with the next generation high-speed double deck EMUs to next year's pre-election budget, after the Western Rail Plan has been fully committed to and funded. But I doubt it will happen that way.
Gman_86
Two schemes that I do not get and I don't think should be done is the SRL and VFT to Geelong. SRL is really, really expensive and has a very long lead time. Just improve the Orbital Bus Routes.

VFT to Geelong, via Newport. How is that to be achieved when there is a massive bottleneck between Southern Cross and Newport? How will it work with Williamstown and stopping Laverton services.

I agree the Western Rail Plan should take priority over SRL, VFT to Geelong and the Airport line.


Michael
  Tii Locomotive Driver

Is it time to ponder what may be in the May 2021 Victorian budget for transport infrastructure ?
The budget has been hit hard with COVID and all the current projects. There's still plenty to finish off by the next election and beyond, but what could we expect in this years budget ? Perhaps no new funding. this year for anything new but perhaps in 2022 I think we might see -
1. western rail plan detail and funding
2. Clyde extension
3. Baxter extension
4. More VLocity sets ?
5. V/Line.....anything after the RRR projects already announced.

Just crystal ball gazing here
The shift to Regional areas does not warrant billions of dollars being spend on rail provision to areas not currently served by rail. I would rather money being spent on restructuring and upgrading the Bus Network in Melbourne. That is a more urgent priority.


Michael
mejhammers1
Thats true as it would be a cash splash. Definitely agree with substantial bus reform as detailed in Railpage many times- it isn't sexy for an election but we desperately need some useful reform out north at least. Frequency and late buses just don't run in a useful way
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Two schemes that I do not get and I don't think should be done is the SRL and VFT to Geelong. SRL is really, really expensive and has a very long lead time. Just improve the Orbital Bus Routes.

VFT to Geelong, via Newport. How is that to be achieved when there is a massive bottleneck between Southern Cross and Newport? How will it work with Williamstown and stopping Laverton services.
mejhammers1
I agree, that is a ludicrous plan that only works if the Metro 2 tunnel from Newport to Southern Cross via Fisherman's Bend is built, and there has been even more silence over that then the Western Rail Plan.

It's even crazier when you consider that the RRL was built with enough space to spare for any future quadding to allow Geelong trains an express run the whole way. I mean, the RRL is less than a decade old and its main purpose was to remove Geelong and Ballarat trains from the suburban network, and now these imbeciles are planning to just throw them back in together again, and for what?

It is almost as if there is someone somewhere with some serious influence that actually has something to gain in stuffing the network up as much as is possible.
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I wouldn't expect much other than the treasury allocating cash-muny for things we already know about (i.e they'd have a firm position in the forward estimates).

We might get the studies for the WRP and the higher-speed services to Geelong but I wouldn't be surprised if that's later this year with the MARL and SRL cases.

Next year, I fully expect the list of 75 level crossings to be expanded, but that'll probably come from the ALP/party machine rather than government as part of their lead-up to the election (just like it did in the lead-up to november 2018 - we got drips and drabs over a few weeks to announce each of the 25 crossings back then - hopefully we get another 25 in this campaign / especially if they win again)

I also think we'll have a pretty good picture of the entire rail investment horizon over the next 10-15 years as part of the election campaign next year.
  Tii Locomotive Driver

I wouldn't expect much other than the treasury allocating cash-muny for things we already know about (i.e they'd have a firm position in the forward estimates).

We might get the studies for the WRP and the higher-speed services to Geelong but I wouldn't be surprised if that's later this year with the MARL and SRL cases.

Next year, I fully expect the list of 75 level crossings to be expanded, but that'll probably come from the ALP/party machine rather than government as part of their lead-up to the election (just like it did in the lead-up to november 2018 - we got drips and drabs over a few weeks to announce each of the 25 crossings back then - hopefully we get another 25 in this campaign / especially if they win again)

I also think we'll have a pretty good picture of the entire rail investment horizon over the next 10-15 years as part of the election campaign next year.
tayser
The list is endless but money and capacity isn't and I get that. The SRL is just going to drain so much money now, that the only way for WRP and Geelong is for the feds to stump up cash for it, as Victoria has nothing left to sell off. I can only see them offering cash for WRP in the 2022 or 2026 election now. In state election for 2022, the promises about WRP will come but no-one will have to honour it if elected...into the too hard basket. Likewise with more LX works. Im getting all foamy I know, Lockie has better insight into what's practical but 10-15 years for the WRP is way too long. So unless Victoria/Fed budgets recover by some miracle, I think it's slim pickings this time.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Lets keep it realistic, last years budget was late and the state has spent billions on COVID19. Nothing has happened with the budget announcements that happened late last year. The two major projects were part funded by the feds. Airport Rail (being built with gold rails) and to my detest Geelong HSR. To add to that, no concept or preferred bidder has been announced for the new tram order.

I suspect this year will be very light on, just tying up some loose ends for current projects. Reasoning for this is two fold, the first is above, the budget is pretty deep in the red. None of it for bad reasons, a s*it tone has gone to COVID19 and the government continues to push along with its social reforms projects such as the $2B investment in public housing, new schools, new hospitals. Say what you will about borrowing, but i'm glad that these social reform investments have not been cut when we need them most.

Secondly, 2022 is an election year. So the big projects will come out in the 2022 budget to sweeten the voters. I don't think it will be a big spending election campaign like 2018. The libs will be bashing the 'labor cant manage the budget' gong as they usually do.

So, what to expect in 2021?

With the 'fast tracking' of the RRL LX removals, I suspect that we might see some money for Melton. Wouldn't expect the full amount, maybe money for pre works with the main sum of money to come in 2022. The seat of Melton is one of the few marginal seats for Labor at 4.3%.

It also worth noting that the Western Rail Plan is being sold as one project, the government has changed their tune to 'a series of projects for the west'. With the BLU finished, the line between Deer Park & Melton is all but missing the OLE. If this was announced, Melton would line up with MM1 opening. I cant remember if the 65 HCMTS were enough to run Melton as well, there is a contract extension for another 20. I cant see anymore trains coming from CCRC int he current climate. With Melton on dedicated tracks, this frees up paths and fleet for WV.

West Werribee may get up, its a relatively small project, 10km of new track in an existing corridor. The proposed stations could be put on the back burner to bring costs down.

These two projects, take the heat off WV and give the government a couple of years to figure out what to make of RRL. IMO it should be finished to its full potential. Quad from WV through to Deer Park, then run WV and Regional services express into Southern Cross with upgraded signalling from Sunshine to SCS. WV services get exclusive use of 15 & 16 as intended with regionals confined to platforms 1-8. (6TPH Geelong, 6 WV, 3 Ballarat, 3 Bendigo)

Again, with WRP being broken up, we could see WV in 2022. This would space the projects in the west out over 5 - 10 years. Not that we have been waiting that long.

Clyde is a maybe, full works are not going to be finished until after the 2022 election, so this could be an election commitment for 2022.

Baxter again maybe, this depends on Metro's need for additional stabling and maintenance. But I doubt it will come up in 2021.

Upfield - Somerton Link & Essendon Station may come up this year. They are both precursor projects to MM1 Day 1 ops. Again, both small projects.

Doubt we will see any LX related funding this year. The government is already powering through 75. Expect this to be rounded out to 100 for 2022.

Maybe a few Vlocities, to keep the workers going until 2022. I'd expect 'New Generation' regional trains around this time.

Xtrap 2.0, haven't heard much of it at all. But a continued replacement of the Comengs in needed. Possibly 2022 election announcement. I'd expect any new trains to be made here, as per the Federal Labor's 'reconstruction fund'.

Outside of heavy rail, it would be nice to see small scale tram improvements and a speed up of DDA compliance. Less than 10 tram stops were funded over the last few years. With new trams funded last year, a full scale roll out of low floor strops is needed. Along with this the half a dozen small scale extensions that would be just as good as SRL. $1Billion could deliver all of this and a hundred new tram stops. This would go a long way to propping up the inner city seats. Northcote 1.7%, Brunswick (greens) 0.57%, Richmond 5.46%, Hawthorn 0.42%, Brighton (Libs) 1.12%, Caulfield (Libs) 0.27%, Malvern (Libs) 6.1%, Melbourne (Greens) 1.13%

Let's wait and see what crumbs start dropping over the next month.

Lockie
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

The list is endless but money and capacity isn't and I get that. The SRL is just going to drain so much money now, that the only way for WRP and Geelong is for the feds to stump up cash for it, as Victoria has nothing left to sell off. I can only see them offering cash for WRP in the 2022 or 2026 election now. In state election for 2022, the promises about WRP will come but no-one will have to honour it if elected...into the too hard basket. Likewise with more LX works. Im getting all foamy I know, Lockie has better insight into what's practical but 10-15 years for the WRP is way too long. So unless Victoria/Fed budgets recover by some miracle, I think it's slim pickings this time.
Tii
Five years posting on Railpage, no one has ever called me Insightful. Not sure I would, Just have to read the political winds to figure out what gets funded. As much as every government likes to say it's independent, thats a long of smeg. Money goes where governments will be rewarded with votes.

There is no need to sell anything off, we can just borrow as we we did last year to fund infrastructure. Reserve Bank is happy to buy our debit bonds along with the feds. Cutting the budget now will just result in massive job losses. Both state and feds needs to keep going for the next few years once confidence and GDP improves. It will be easier to pay off bigger debit with more people in work, than the smaller debit with fewer people in work.

As for the SRL, it will be a billion or so every year over many years. No budget drain and no different to MM1. They didn't stump up the $11 billion all at once. This is a good project for recovery as it will keep thousands in work for almost 10 years.

Insightful Lockie
  Tii Locomotive Driver

Lets keep it realistic, last years budget was late and the state has spent billions on COVID19. Nothing has happened with the budget announcements that happened late last year. The two major projects were part funded by the feds. Airport Rail (being built with gold rails) and to my detest Geelong HSR. To add to that, no concept or preferred bidder has been announced for the new tram order.

I suspect this year will be very light on, just tying up some loose ends for current projects. Reasoning for this is two fold, the first is above, the budget is pretty deep in the red. None of it for bad reasons, a s*it tone has gone to COVID19 and the government continues to push along with its social reforms projects such as the $2B investment in public housing, new schools, new hospitals. Say what you will about borrowing, but i'm glad that these social reform investments have not been cut when we need them most.

Secondly, 2022 is an election year. So the big projects will come out in the 2022 budget to sweeten the voters. I don't think it will be a big spending election campaign like 2018. The libs will be bashing the 'labor cant manage the budget' gong as they usually do.

So, what to expect in 2021?

With the 'fast tracking' of the RRL LX removals, I suspect that we might see some money for Melton. Wouldn't expect the full amount, maybe money for pre works with the main sum of money to come in 2022. The seat of Melton is one of the few marginal seats for Labor at 4.3%.

It also worth noting that the Western Rail Plan is being sold as one project, the government has changed their tune to 'a series of projects for the west'. With the BLU finished, the line between Deer Park & Melton is all but missing the OLE. If this was announced, Melton would line up with MM1 opening. I cant remember if the 65 HCMTS were enough to run Melton as well, there is a contract extension for another 20. I cant see anymore trains coming from CCRC int he current climate. With Melton on dedicated tracks, this frees up paths and fleet for WV.

West Werribee may get up, its a relatively small project, 10km of new track in an existing corridor. The proposed stations could be put on the back burner to bring costs down.

These two projects, take the heat off WV and give the government a couple of years to figure out what to make of RRL. IMO it should be finished to its full potential. Quad from WV through to Deer Park, then run WV and Regional services express into Southern Cross with upgraded signalling from Sunshine to SCS. WV services get exclusive use of 15 & 16 as intended with regionals confined to platforms 1-8. (6TPH Geelong, 6 WV, 3 Ballarat, 3 Bendigo)

Again, with WRP being broken up, we could see WV in 2022. This would space the projects in the west out over 5 - 10 years. Not that we have been waiting that long.

Clyde is a maybe, full works are not going to be finished until after the 2022 election, so this could be an election commitment for 2022.

Baxter again maybe, this depends on Metro's need for additional stabling and maintenance. But I doubt it will come up in 2021.

Upfield - Somerton Link & Essendon Station may come up this year. They are both precursor projects to MM1 Day 1 ops. Again, both small projects.

Doubt we will see any LX related funding this year. The government is already powering through 75. Expect this to be rounded out to 100 for 2022.

Maybe a few Vlocities, to keep the workers going until 2022. I'd expect 'New Generation' regional trains around this time.

Xtrap 2.0, haven't heard much of it at all. But a continued replacement of the Comengs in needed. Possibly 2022 election announcement. I'd expect any new trains to be made here, as per the Federal Labor's 'reconstruction fund'.

Outside of heavy rail, it would be nice to see small scale tram improvements and a speed up of DDA compliance. Less than 10 tram stops were funded over the last few years. With new trams funded last year, a full scale roll out of low floor strops is needed. Along with this the half a dozen small scale extensions that would be just as good as SRL. $1Billion could deliver all of this and a hundred new tram stops. This would go a long way to propping up the inner city seats. Northcote 1.7%, Brunswick (greens) 0.57%, Richmond 5.46%, Hawthorn 0.42%, Brighton (Libs) 1.12%, Caulfield (Libs) 0.27%, Malvern (Libs) 6.1%, Melbourne (Greens) 1.13%

Let's wait and see what crumbs start dropping over the next month.

Lockie
Lockie91
Thanks for the practical insight on 2021 and major announcements likely for 2022. I have no disagreement with any of your likely projects and timeline as it all seems doable with some will from this government to bring as much of it into fruition for Metro1 opening in 2025 across the network and a major uplift in service.  The Melton/WV projects are timely and sensible to do in parts as follow ons from Cranbourne and Hurstbridge line upgrades for the work crews. An extra 25 LX removals would also give the various teams more work as the 75 come to an end over the coming years. Those small tram extensions as RFI suggested make total sense and I wonder why they never seem to happen (money/politics I guess) but election years are interesting with plenty of carrots being produced or promised. How many of these projects could be funded by the Feds as part of the reconstruction funds ?  Do you think the bits of the western rail projects would come under that or do you expect some funds from Airport rail to be incorporated across that as a multi step project ? I speculate of course for 2022, but for the May 2021 budget, I only see continuation of what is already underway along with much needed social projects.
  Tii Locomotive Driver

The list is endless but money and capacity isn't and I get that. The SRL is just going to drain so much money now, that the only way for WRP and Geelong is for the feds to stump up cash for it, as Victoria has nothing left to sell off. I can only see them offering cash for WRP in the 2022 or 2026 election now. In state election for 2022, the promises about WRP will come but no-one will have to honour it if elected...into the too hard basket. Likewise with more LX works. Im getting all foamy I know, Lockie has better insight into what's practical but 10-15 years for the WRP is way too long. So unless Victoria/Fed budgets recover by some miracle, I think it's slim pickings this time.
Five years posting on Railpage, no one has ever called me Insightful. Not sure I would, Just have to read the political winds to figure out what gets funded. As much as every government likes to say it's independent, thats a long of smeg. Money goes where governments will be rewarded with votes.

There is no need to sell anything off, we can just borrow as we we did last year to fund infrastructure. Reserve Bank is happy to buy our debit bonds along with the feds. Cutting the budget now will just result in massive job losses. Both state and feds needs to keep going for the next few years once confidence and GDP improves. It will be easier to pay off bigger debit with more people in work, than the smaller debit with fewer people in work.

As for the SRL, it will be a billion or so every year over many years. No budget drain and no different to MM1. They didn't stump up the $11 billion all at once. This is a good project for recovery as it will keep thousands in work for almost 10 years.

Insightful Lockie
Lockie91
Thanks. I know governments fund debt differently to my own budget woes, and it certainly is a good time to borrow and spend up on infrastructure long overdue, as long as some payment balance is forthcoming. Eek I'd suggest a rise in taxes but I'm not running for election lol. . An annual regular infrastructure spend for decades would hopefully keep us on track once the major projects are nearing completion.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thats a lot for one budget though. I can't see anything major major without Federal infrastructure funding in conjunction with Victorian state funding alongside. But 2022 is a likely federal election too, so being politics money will be to the other state regional areas I think. I feel it will still be basic extensions like Baxter and Clyde for now with business cases for the rest. Melton electrification probably before Geelong though and the Somerton link in the 2022-2025 years to match up with Metro tunnel opening.
Tii

It is  but I am sure I would rather spend the money now doing Ballarat Electrification getting the scope right and getting the job DONE.  This government and yes they have been in power for 20 years have taken a piecemeal approach with most of the network development where there has been any.  The concept of an office has changed forever and regional centres will expand faster than ever.

We need faster services now between Ballarat (suburbs) and Melbourne and Geelong metro area and Melbourne.  Double deck 160 km/h EMU running for the hills to Ballarat.

I also agree with the triangle being completed ASAP to connect the RRL with Werribee.
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The best thing about COVID is that it's broken the mould of infrastructure funding.  Where previously we were told that we could only get shiny new things if the budget was in surplus or if state assets were sold off - govs now actively borrow for productive infrastructure which the RBA has been trying to encourage.

It's going to take a long time to deprogram a lot of people and that thinking we've had rammed down our throats for 30 years.
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
By the way, in terms of the state of the actual budget - with the roaring house prices in Melbourne and the regions, I fully suspect stamp duty receipts will not be as dire as the state would have rightfully thought they would have been back during the second lockdown &  at the delayed budget last year.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

By the way, in terms of the state of the actual budget - with the roaring house prices in Melbourne and the regions, I fully suspect stamp duty receipts will not be as dire as the state would have rightfully thought they would have been back during the second lockdown &  at the delayed budget last year.
tayser
If they were smart, they'd transition to a land tax model. Makes the receipts more reliable and consistent.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Thats a lot for one budget though. I can't see anything major major without Federal infrastructure funding in conjunction with Victorian state funding alongside. But 2022 is a likely federal election too, so being politics money will be to the other state regional areas I think. I feel it will still be basic extensions like Baxter and Clyde for now with business cases for the rest. Melton electrification probably before Geelong though and the Somerton link in the 2022-2025 years to match up with Metro tunnel opening.

It is  but I am sure I would rather spend the money now doing Ballarat Electrification getting the scope right and getting the job DONE.  This government and yes they have been in power for 20 years have taken a piecemeal approach with most of the network development where there has been any.  The concept of an office has changed forever and regional centres will expand faster than ever.

We need faster services now between Ballarat (suburbs) and Melbourne and Geelong metro area and Melbourne.  Double deck 160 km/h EMU running for the hills to Ballarat.

I also agree with the triangle being completed ASAP to connect the RRL with Werribee.
bevans
We need faster services now between Ballarat (suburbs) and Melbourne and Geelong metro area and Melbourne.  Double deck 160 km/h EMU running for the hills to Ballarat.

Why is the above urgent?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Two schemes that I do not get and I don't think should be done is the SRL and VFT to Geelong. SRL is really, really expensive and has a very long lead time. Just improve the Orbital Bus Routes.

VFT to Geelong, via Newport. How is that to be achieved when there is a massive bottleneck between Southern Cross and Newport? How will it work with Williamstown and stopping Laverton services.
I agree, that is a ludicrous plan that only works if the Metro 2 tunnel from Newport to Southern Cross via Fisherman's Bend is built, and there has been even more silence over that then the Western Rail Plan.

It's even crazier when you consider that the RRL was built with enough space to spare for any future quadding to allow Geelong trains an express run the whole way. I mean, the RRL is less than a decade old and its main purpose was to remove Geelong and Ballarat trains from the suburban network, and now these imbeciles are planning to just throw them back in together again, and for what?

It is almost as if there is someone somewhere with some serious influence that actually has something to gain in stuffing the network up as much as is possible.
Gman_86
Yes, a far better use of funding would be to use the Airport line as a bypass and to remove the Bendigo, Seymour and Shepparton services from the Metro Network, than this totally farcical idea of fast rail to Geelong which will crawl from Flinders Street to Newport and would require major property acquisitions between Laverton and Werribee.

That is to say, I would build the MARL as cheaply as possible. Just a simple station at the Airport, no electrification, with a new track corridor through Bulla and Clarkefield to Sunbury for the Bendigo line and a loop back to the Freight corridor to Broadmeadows for the Seymour and Shepparton services. V/Locities for Bendigo, Shepparton and Seymour services and refurbished Sprinters and rebuilt and refurbished loco hauled classic carriage stock rendered surplus for the services Terminating at the Airport. I would also expand the local Bus network and extend the 59 Tram.

So for me, the MARL would only be a means of releasing more capacity for the Sunbury and Craigieburn lines. Minimal spend for the Airport and more money for the Western Rail Plan and Craigieburn corridor.


Michael
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Thats a lot for one budget though. I can't see anything major major without Federal infrastructure funding in conjunction with Victorian state funding alongside. But 2022 is a likely federal election too, so being politics money will be to the other state regional areas I think. I feel it will still be basic extensions like Baxter and Clyde for now with business cases for the rest. Melton electrification probably before Geelong though and the Somerton link in the 2022-2025 years to match up with Metro tunnel opening.

It is  but I am sure I would rather spend the money now doing Ballarat Electrification getting the scope right and getting the job DONE.  This government and yes they have been in power for 20 years have taken a piecemeal approach with most of the network development where there has been any.  The concept of an office has changed forever and regional centres will expand faster than ever.

We need faster services now between Ballarat (suburbs) and Melbourne and Geelong metro area and Melbourne.  Double deck 160 km/h EMU running for the hills to Ballarat.

I also agree with the triangle being completed ASAP to connect the RRL with Werribee.
We need faster services now between Ballarat (suburbs) and Melbourne and Geelong metro area and Melbourne.  Double deck 160 km/h EMU running for the hills to Ballarat.

Why is the above urgent?
mejhammers1
It's not, Bevans has gone foamy early.

The only justification for sparking and EMU's is the reduction of OPEX. Geelong is the only regional line close to this, running an almost 10 minute service all day. However, patronage is not enough to justify additional services from Geelong. A lot of the boardings are coming from WV & Tarneit. Remove RRL boardings from Geelong and 6 car Velocities will do for some time.

When services are crush loading at Geelong and there is need to add additional services, then sparking is relevant along with the introduction of new fleet. You're not going to see it in 2021, 2022 or this side of 2030.

Lockie
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

In my opinion the 21/22 budget this year will barely bring any new projects to the table, and instead support the upcoming megaprojects (Airport Line, SRL, North-East link, Westgate Tunnel). I’ll expect that more information on these megaprojects will be released, especially if they want to start main construction on SRL from early 2022 (current government likely wants construction started and shown off pre-election).

22/23 budget will be the year that more projects get announced, including likely planning for projects that the current government will re-election promise.

In my opinion the 21/22 budget should be including funds for those MM1 support projects such as Upfield line upgrade and stabling improvements on the Frankston line.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.

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